Axel in charge

Originally posted by nikbackm Jean would like to have a word or two with you.... Banshee as well for that matter.

Cable has faked death or "died" at least 3 times: fighting Stryfe in X-Cutioner's Song, Second Coming, and the burn-out situation in Cable & Deadpool. Not to mention the numerous stories where Cable "played" dead. He gets it from his sorta mother LOL.

The story of Thor's recent "death" which was apart of the larger story as well. And before that THor was actually off the table for 3 years.

Death really isn't whats important to me, its the impact the death has to characters and/or story arc.


Great points nikbackm btw.

Edited by Blackcyclops - 03-May-2012 at 2:27pm

Thanks bc.

I just remembered that Professor X was also shown in some advance preview art. What would be the odds of him being the sacrifice? (this time he's really passing the torch!)

Could also be he's included to pick up the reins again after AvX of course. Remembering that he still exists just before killing him off could be considered a little random story-telling :)


Edited by nikbackm - 03-May-2012 at 6:18pm

Yes we automatically equate sacrifice to death...but what if someone gets arrested or gives up something...

It would be interesting if Cyclops lost his mutant powers...the story potential there would be exciting.

Going by what Axel said that does not sound too likely. But you never know.

Axel Alonso: "Oh yeah: And there’s one dramatic moment – let’s just say it involves sacrifice – that is going to make a lot of people mad and even more people cry."

Or maybe he's referring to tears of joy?

Originally posted by XtremeOne1 The team leader didn't always mean the main character, but this is the second major event revolving around Cyke being hard headed against another hard headed a-hole.

Hey, there's actually THREE assholes butting off in the event!


Edited by nikbackm - 03-May-2012 at 8:16pm

Originally posted by Blackcyclops Actually Cyclops does define himself by his powers...but perhaps not in the way you're talking thinking. Cyclops proclaims to be the leader of MUTANTkind and really falls into this idea that he is fighting for HIS peopel's survival. Well how would he feel, or more importantly how would the rest of the mutants feel, if he lost his powers and was now a human. Would he still be the one to lead the X-Men? Would the Utopia people still follow him? What would he think of himself? Where would his place in the world be? Because him losing his powers wouldn't be the same as when Storm did, not even close. But its just a thought. And him going to jail has the same implications with one small difference. He's forced to deal with himself and his actions without the rationale of "i'm fighting for OUR survival". No one is getting rid of Wolverine...so that's a dead idea. But its not more zany then Cyclops losing his powers, so its possible lol Honestly anything is possible...so I can't discount any theory. @nikbackm: Its going to be four once Legacy joins the foray...and Beast is always an a-hole...

Hmm, see I'd still be team Cyclops, even if he lost his powers(if I was on Utopia...). This isn't like what happened with Storm for sure, but Scott has proven himself to be a leader they all fall behind, not because he's a mutant but because he's Scott. I guess it could mean someone like Magneto will challenge him for leadership but both Storm and Emma would stand behind him and with Emma comes the Cuckoos and with Storm comes a good deal of X-men.

Really the only people it would affect would be Scott and Magneto, maybe even Namor(but no one would follow Namor). I'm liking for something that touches everyone. Scott being arrested would definitely do that.

Originally posted by ev82 I know. That was an editorial decision not necessarily based on like how the book was being written (especially being part of a crossover). I'm dropping new mutants because I'm not enjoying it. If I had dropped new xmen back in 2003 when jean died I would have been hurting myself more than marvel. I'm just saying that there is a difference in dropping a book in protest because you disagree with one specific thing vs dropping a book because you don't enjoy it. I think the former is stupid.

I dropped Uncanny because I disliked the character of Hope so much that it actually made reading each issue painful, post-Schism. I appreciate that you may not agree with me/my decision, but I don't see how disagreeing with one specific thing makes a person stupid. I'm the first to admit that I think my decision is somewhat irrational considering I'm buying every issue plus the tie-ins of a crossover that more or less features Hope as a central character, but then again, there's also the other side of the argument. If the one specific thing can be summed up as a particular writer, or artist, then I think a person is more than entitled to use that as a strong reason to drop the title. In fact, I do believe that I had a similar discussion with Six about Uncanny when Land took over as an artist-- if you dislike something for a particular reason, when it comes to a company that provides a service, your best bet is to vote with your money.

 I don't want to see Gillen out of a job because I honestly believe he's an incredibly talented writer, but at the same time, I don't see why Hope should be granted the same status as characters like Cyclops, Storm and Magneto. I've sent an email to the X-Office (although I doubt it was given more than ten second's notice) explaining why I'm dropping Uncanny and that I won't be reading it again regularly until there's another line-up shake up, because I don't want to read about Hope.

Ev, I agree with you on a number of things that you post, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disgaree with you on this point. Sometimes one thing can mean the difference between a person happily buying an issue, and doing so either begrudgingly, or not at all. In this instance, I'll only be buying Uncanny again until the end of AvX, and I'll only consider buying it again depending on the outcome. I don't see why I should spend my money on a title that, by and large, makes me mad due to the character that, last I read, was being made a, if not THE, main character of the title.

I have to agree with XTreme here. I don't think anyone would view Scott differently without his powers. Firepower is by no means his main contribution to the team. It's his leadership and strategic capabilities.

A Cyclops in chains story would be pretty good actually. Do I see Namor or Mags following anyone else on Utopia? Not at all, so would they still even be X-Men? Or just generally extremely disruptive influences. Would Emma still be commited to Cyclop's cause without Cyclops being there?

And getting Scott out of the books would be for me a good thing. Not because I don't *like* the character per se, I just don't think I've enjoyed what's been done to him since the middle of the last decade really. The interesting thing is, I see Logan building a sustainable future by deliberately going with people who are polar opposites of him. If he's not around, I can see Beast quite happily taking up the slack as a headmaster, with Rogue leading a strike-force type team. I think the spotlighting of Cyclops has made him so central to what that side of the Schism means that if he was the one to make the sacrifice, there'd be complete dissaray.

Cyclops without the powers I think would collapse.  Yeah, it's not the most important thing about him, but he's always based his identity upon being the guy who has to stand up as an example, leader, and protector of mutants because he is a mutant.  He doesn't really talk about it, but he doesn't see himself as a pilot and Mets fan and strategist first.  He doesn't stand with mutants because it's the right thing to do, he stands with mutants because he is one.  Are we so quick to forget how torn up he was in Whedon's Astonishing about not being able to access his powers for a little while?  He's skilled and tactical enough to get by most of the time, but he is still the unspoken king of mutants and sometimes there's times when you need the king to get out there and lead from the frontlines.  And whenever people say that "This human doesn't have powers so they can't help in a fight" that does affect things.

Captain America?  Fine, he's a product of incredibly efficient steroids, but he's still basically a human.  Other regular humans can stand up to him in a fight if they really try, there are ways to train to become like Cap.  You can't train eye beams if you don't already have eyebeams.  And while those optic blasts are not the most important thing about Cyclops, they certainly assist things when he uses them.  His attack options without them are incredibly limited, although I suppose he can slap on a jet pack and grab a gun, but at that point the X-Men might as well try to hire Cloud 9.  This is to say that Cyclops leads a team of mutants because he is a mutant and will jump into the thick of things with them as a man who possesses abilities that put him in a class with those he leads.  Same as Captain America.

But whereas Captain America could still lead the Avengers if he lost his enhanced abilities, Cyclops could not.  That is because, get this: Captain America is genuinely well-liked and respected by his followers.  He'll hang out with them.  He's even seen wearing regular clothes in their presence sometimes.  He's a symbol, yes, but he's also just a man, and that's the whole point.  Cap represents, to his followers, the best of what can happen when a simple, average guy stands up and puts everything he has into becoming his best.  Cyclops is not simple and average, never was, never wanted to be.  But beyond that, he's not likable, he's just the leader because mutants needed a mutant to follow.  Is he intelligent?  Yes.  But without being a mutant, now he's just another human trying to act like he knows what's best for mutantkind.  He might not necessarily be exiled, but unless he had direct, overwhelming support from the people that he's now asking to do the hard things that he literally could not do even if he wanted to... that costs him something in the ability to effectively command, and he could easily lose his position to another mutant who is more charismatic and just as effective at rallying people.

Cyclops could become another human advisor... Kate Kildare helps maximize their public relations, Kavita Rao helps maximize their understanding of medicine and biology, while Cyclops helps maximize their resource management.  They're experts in their fields, know what they're talking about, but it's up to the mutant consortium if they choose to go along with what they say.

Ugh. Evidently, Jean will be the sacrifice. We know she isn't coming back, but she sacrificed everything needed already to NOT come back. She's always the one to sacrifice for the X-Men. It's Scott's turn, or Wolverine's, or Storms or someone else's turn other than Colossus.