 X-Treme X-Men (2nd series) # 3 So why not go read it now. |
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X-Men Members Part II |
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Monolith 
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Joined: 20-Feb-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2628 |
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 Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 3:05am |
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Well kiddies, they finally broke me with Second Coming. Yes, Marvel, you won -- everybody you're calling an X-Man is one. It just got to be too hard to fight it. But it's an all or nothing type of deal. So now, I accept that the New X-Men, Young X-Men, New Mutants and X-Club are all members. I think ALL active students became X-Men after Manifest Destiny, when they came to San Francisco. So anyone who joined a training squad post M-Day became a member, or when they rejoined the team when it reformed in San Francisco. And I think anyone Cyclops officially deputized who was based at the X-Center or Utopia should also qualify -- Cyke definitely granted himself unilateral authority over who is or isn't an X-Man. So, going off of the bottom of Sifo's list...
Husk
Juggernaut Mystique *Surge - as of New X-Men #23 *Hellion - same
*Mercury - same *Rockslide - same *Elixir - same *Dust - same *X-23 - same *Prodigy - as of New X-Men #28 Warpath
Sabertooth Omega Sentinel Lady Mastermind *Anole - as of New X-Men #41
*Pixie - same
Armor *Wolf Cub - as of Young X-Men #1 (iffy, but Santo would've insisted it stay official) *Blindfold - same
*Ink - same
*Karma - as of UXM #501
*Sunspot - as of Young X-Men #5
*Greymalkin - same
*Stepford Cuckoos - as of Secret Invasion: X-Men #1 (first time seen in San Fran)
*Magma - as of Secret Invasion: X-Men #4
*Boom-Boom - as of X-Men: Manifest Destiny #1 *Match - as of X-Men: Manfest Destiny #2
*Trance - same
*Indra - same
*Loa - same
*Doctor Nemesis - as of UXM #504
*Box - as of UXM #505
*Yuriko Takiguchi - as of UXM #507
*Kavita Rao - as of UXM #508
*Cipher - as of Young X-Men #10
*Gentle - as of X-Men: World's Apart #4
Magik
*Onyxx - as of Uncany X-Men / Dark Avengers: Utopia #1
*Bling! - same
*Daken - as of UXM #513
*Cloak - same
*Dagger - same
*Omega - same
*Sub-Mariner - same
*Dark Beast - same
Ariel II *Danger - as of X-Men Legacy #226
Cypher
Warlock *Hope Summers - as of Second Coming It's a ridiculous amount of new members in such a short time, but honestly, only a little worse than the Avengers since Bendis took over. Of course there's going to be dispute about the Dark X-Men. Me, I've always counted the EoD team and Cable / X-Man Astonishing team as full members. Even if you don't, however, Namor and Cloak & Dagger definitely became members of the regular X-Men. I do question when Magma joined the team -- she didn't seem to stick around after Young X-Men #5, may've just been passing through in Secret Invasion, but was already moved in when NM #1 came out. I'm also not sure about Wolfsbane, Domino and Vanisher -- the three X-Force members who aren't otherwise X-Men. Was X-Force SO secret that even Cyclops didn't consider them X-Men, or were they just an off-the-books black ops unit that were still "officially unofficially" X-Men.
Anyone remember StormWatch Zero from Wildstorm? No? Just me? Alrighty... :-)
Anyway, that's where I'm at right now. Feel free to agree or disagree.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Gibbering Fool
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1084 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 3:50am |
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I like your argument Monolith and I mostly agree. However I don't agree about the Dark X--Men. Well Daken, Dark Beast and Omega anyway, the others were either previously X-Men (Mimic and Mystique) or betrayed the team and joined the real X-Men (Namor, Cloak Dagger). I think considering they were an Osborn sanctioned team, fought against the X-men and didn't have Cyclops blessing they weren't "real" X-men. As for the X-Force members, I'd say if New Mutants and X-Club are considered X-men so should X-Force.
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Blackcyclops
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Joined: 13-Apr-2007 Location: Chi-Town Online Status: Offline Posts: 7246 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 4:52am |
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So the X-Corps members back in the day were considered X-Men? I mean if we are considering New Mutants, X-Force, etc X-Men, why not them?
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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Gibbering Fool
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1084 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 11:08am |
Im talking post Manifest Destiny. |
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Monolith
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Joined: 20-Feb-2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2628 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 1:19pm |
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Ditto. The broad spectrum of membership only takes effect from the time of San Francisco, when Cyclops officially changed the rules of the game. It doesn't reverse engineer membership from years past.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Blackcyclops
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Joined: 13-Apr-2007 Location: Chi-Town Online Status: Offline Posts: 7246 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 2:43pm |
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No I wasn't trying to reverse engineer,I was just asking if those guys were considered X-Men because I mean Cable/X-Man are being considered X-Men.Same as the EOD team...that's all. Especially since the X-Corps (not Banshee's X-Corporation) were all centrally revolved around Xavier and his ideals and had X-insignias. That's all...
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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Monolith
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 2:46pm |
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Well first, Banshee's team was X-Corps, Xavier's groups were X-Corporation offices.
The EoD team and the Astonishing teams were both called X-Men. The X-Corporation, like Excalibur, X-Force, New Mutants or X-Factor of the time, was a group with its own name and identity separate from the X-Men.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Blackcyclops
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Joined: 13-Apr-2007 Location: Chi-Town Online Status: Offline Posts: 7246 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 3:16pm |
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Gotcha...wasn't sure. I guess I was confused because at the time I saw them as an global outreach of the X-Men.
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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EphemeristX
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Sol III Online Status: Offline Posts: 960 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 5:51pm |
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I can't remember the cirucmstances of Wolfsbane joining X-Force, but I'm pretty sure that it was Wolverine who pulled in Domino and Vanisher (and Elixir, and the Cuckoos) without Cyclops' involvement. If it were up to me, I wouldn't put Dom or Vanisher as joining the X-Men until Utopia. That's the first time I remember either of them acting in an X-Man capacity and not as part of a separate strike-force. But even if not then, certainly when the jig was up during Second Coming.
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Monolith
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 5:55pm |
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Cyclops basically told Wolverine, "Wolfsbane on your team. Deal with it."
As for Domino, what about the Sisterhood arc? She was involved there -- does anyone think she was recruited then, not even counting her X-Force status?
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Tyler5618
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Joined: 05-Jul-2007 Location: New York Online Status: Offline Posts: 1132 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 6:15pm |
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Yeah, I would consider Domino as X-Man as of the Sisterhood arc because that was her first involvement with the X-Men proper. Also, she reported to Cyclops during the Want You to Want Me arc in Deadpool. So, I'd say way before Second Coming.
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- Storm, Uncanny X-Men #246 |
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EphemeristX
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Sol III Online Status: Offline Posts: 960 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 6:29pm |
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I thought the Utopia arc was before Sisterhood. Isn't it? *checks* Oh, yeah, just before. Well, even so, I'm not sure because it seemed like Dom was just luckily in Japan at Wolverine's behest. I guess it's just one of those things that could be left up to interpretation, since the line between X-Man and not was so blurred by then and it really wasn't cleared up until Cyke took up his militaristic definition of the term during Utopia. At least for Domino, though, it's really just a member of when she became one, because I believe she is one now, and she was one by Utopia at the very least.
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Gibbering Fool
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1084 |
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Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 11:48pm |
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Someone could counter the argument that Wolverine was the one to bring Domino and Vanisher into X-Force with the fact that Storm brought Lifeguard and Slipstream into the X-treme X-Men and they were considered X-Men. Or what about when Wolverine made Armour an X-Man in Astonishing (this one is more arguable though) |
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Gremlin
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Joined: 17-Apr-2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 1801 |
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 12:45am |
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I see Domino's involvement during the Sisterhood arc as an XMen ally helping out during a time of need. She didn't really function as part of the main team and was only involved by chance.
Her inclusion into X-Force was again by chance but she did officially join the team and function as part of that team. Her membership to the XMen is based on whether you count X-Force as a squad of the Xmen (like New Mutants and Astonishing) or as a seperate team in their own right (like X-factor). |
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion...but yours is wrong.
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Gibbering Fool
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1084 |
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 5:32am |
They way I see it, despite the fact that no-one knew about X-Force, they were sanctied by Cyclops, who, depite somepeople wishing it wasn't true, decides who gets to be an X-Man or now. Which made them a branch of X-men. X-Factor, on the other hand was not created or supported by Cyclops.
Do we consider the Secret Avengers to be Avengers? No-one knows about them, but they were founded by Steve Rogers. However they call themselves Avengers and not A-Force so there's a slight difference there.
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Sifo Dyas
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Joined: 15-Apr-2007 Location: So Cal Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 10:27pm |
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Love that post Monolith. Marvel broke me too on this one. As you can tell, I need order in my life… I was able to modify the first post on this topic after all too Still think there is an issue considering the Dark X-Men (less Namor, Cloak and Dagger) as members. Any thoughts on |
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Gremlin
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Joined: 17-Apr-2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 1801 |
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Posted: 23-Sep-2010 at 11:28pm |
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Aurora....nope. She hasn't function on any x-team and as far as I can recall she hasn't even appeared on Utopia. She was in the one issue of Uncanny where they recruited Northstar and thats it.
Dark Xmen - Again no. To me if a team wants to become Xmen they have to have the concent of one of the main guys....Cyclops, Prof X, Storm ect. Osbourne just used the Xmen's name but he was in no way affiliated with the actual Xmen other than Emma Frost being on the team. Obviously afterwards Namor and C+D joined the team but the likes of dark Beast and Omega I don't consider Xmen. It's like the 90's government sanctioned X-factor.....kind of linked due to the name and members but they still weren't part of the XMen. |
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion...but yours is wrong.
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EphemeristX
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Joined: 09-Apr-2007 Location: Sol III Online Status: Offline Posts: 960 |
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Posted: 24-Sep-2010 at 1:45pm |
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That's a good comparison, Gib. Consider me convinced.
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Monolith
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Posted: 24-Sep-2010 at 2:48pm |
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Aurora's "membership" comes down to how you view Secret Invasion: X-Men. She and Northstar arrived in San Francisco (before he officially rejoined the team) as emergency assistance during the Skrull invasion. Was it enough to make her a member? It's worked in the past for the Avengers (Yellowjacket II, D-Man, Stingray)...or was she just helping out her fellow mutants?
And the X-Men / Dark X-Men debate is of course a mirror of the Avengers / Dark Avengers situation. Osborn had official sanction as top cop of super-heroes to create teams and staff them how he pleased. Legally, his Avengers and X-Men were official, and the others were unregistered vigilantes illegally using the name.
Additionally, Emma Frost participated in the Dark X-Men. She was the official co-leader of the X-Men, with as much authority to create her own team as Storm did when she formed the X-Treme X-Men. Furthermore, Dark X-Men: The Confession showed that Emma and Cyclops were working together on this, meaning Emma's sanctioning of the Dark X-Men was sanctioned by Cyclops, who is the sole power and authority of the X-Men and their membership these days.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Anti-Limbo
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Joined: 21-Jan-2010 Location: IL Online Status: Offline Posts: 274 |
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Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 1:59am |
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I really think the best way to do a list like this is kinda like what Wikipedia has up where you count your Muir Island X-Men and such but make a distinction. List them as X-Men but list them separate. So you'd have an X-Men heading then break it down to Main Roster, New Mutants Squad, X-Force, etc. Because while Jean Grey should be able to make a team of X-Men if she wants and still have them recognized, it doesn't seem fair to count EOD as main roster X-Men.
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20 years later and I'm still waiting on the Hell's Belles to show back up.
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mindeecuckoo
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Joined: 01-Jan-2010 Location: Silver Lake Online Status: Offline Posts: 9 |
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Posted: 12-Dec-2010 at 8:12pm |
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I am curious, if Sabertooth was just a prisoner, why do mystique and Lady Mastermind count, they only joined the xmen to betray them right? Thanks
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Ciel
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Joined: 12-May-2007 Location: Lexington, SC Online Status: Offline Posts: 1265 |
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Posted: 12-Dec-2010 at 11:18pm |
Mystique was actually voted into the X-Men. The intentions of her joining are irrelevant to the question -- Mystique was inducted as an official X-man. Sabretooth never was -- he was merely a captive that they put on a leash to make use of, but nobody pretended he was a part of the team (otherwise he'd have had that status back during the Phalanx stuff with Banshee and Emma Frost). |
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EvilMonkeyPope
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Posted: 12-Dec-2010 at 11:47pm |
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Sabretooth was considered an X-Man in 90s trading cards just to annoy us.
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Gremlin
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Joined: 17-Apr-2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 1801 |
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Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 12:19am |
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Regardless of how Sabretooth became an Xman he operated on a functioning team during missions as an xman when Rogue created her team. He came to the Xmen seeking asylum but Rogue officially put together a team based on Cyclops orders and chose to put Sabretooth on it. Although Cyclops questioned it he didn't stop it.
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Everybody is entitled to their opinion...but yours is wrong.
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Monolith
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Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 6:31pm |
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He also walked around freely without a leash, as seen in Wolverine (3rd series) #50 at the very least. Creed also taunted Logan about being on the team too in that issue.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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