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EvilMonkeyPope
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Topic: Asgardian discrepancies Posted: 02-Feb-2010 at 12:07am |
1. For an alien race based directly off Norse mythology, why do the Asgasdarians often differ from the mythic Asgardians in appearance, attributes, and personalities?
2. Do Marvel's Asgardians differ because Marvel couldn't get copyrights on exact representations of Norse myths, or was it just something Stan & Jack didn't bother to research extensively?
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Blackcyclops
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Posted: 02-Feb-2010 at 5:39am |
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1) I think you taking Alien too directly EmP. They are extra-dimensional beings. Spawned from Gaea (their exact origins differ) and as such were created and the legends of Norse mythology were based on them. So you can say that legend differs from them because like all stories, they get distorted over time
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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Monolith
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Posted: 02-Feb-2010 at 12:06pm |
1) Because they're comic book characters.
2) Neither. Stan and Jack were creating their own characters based on Norse Myths. They chose to put their own spin on the ideas and not just transplant carbon copies into the Marvel Universe.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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EvilMonkeyPope
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 1:02am |
In Earth-X, the aliens assumed the attributes of the Asgardian Gods the Norsemen they met assumed them to be (I know that's not 616 canon, but didn't Ellis write something similar to this in Thor?). So, for example, if the Norsemen had envisioned Hela as having hag's teats and goat legs, why would the alien Asgardian just look like a beautiful woman? Or if the aliens were already incarnate and inspired the Northmen, why would the myths be so off?
Has the Asgardian prescence caused scholars to reevaluate the myths, like Sif have a wig made of Gold since they can see that the 616 Sif has natural brunette hair?
Why does it take until 2099 for Asgardian worship to become popular worldwide?
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Monolith
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 2:56am |
-Earth X continuity has nothing to do with 616 continuity. Colossus and Mister Sinister, for instance, are not the same person in 616, nor are Nightcrawler and Belasco, both of which were stated in Earth X.
In 616, the Asgardians, like the Olympian and Egyptian Gods, etc, were originally formed out of the dispersed God energy from the Elder Gods who, after devolving into Demons, were consumed by Demogorge and their essence cast back into the living biosphere of Earth, the Demiurge. Origin inconsistencies for the Asgardians are due to the involvement of They Who Sit Above in Shadow, who forced the Asgardians through Ragnarok and multiple cycles of death and rebirth, each of which recreated the Asgardian mythology in a different format...like Marvel and Ultimate Marvel.
-The myths are what they always were...myths. In that particular case, however, the story of Sif's hair being changed from golden to black was adopted by Marvel continuity, so it's true regardless.
-It was the disappearance of the Asgardians during the Heroic Age that led to them being worshipped. Much like Jesus Christ, the idea was that the people never knew what they had until they were gone. That said, there was a ridiculously long story arc in Thor (2nd series) #50-79 called The Reigning where modern people really did start worshipping the Asgardians anew.
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Spectral Knight
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 12:11pm |
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I know that the Ultimate touched on it, Monolith, but what does the mass populace of the 616 universe consider Thor? Do they percieve him as a god, or do they just assume he's a super-human playing the role of a god? I guess most super-heroes are familiar enough with Thor or his asccociates (and even visited Asgard?) to know he is a true god, but I'm thinking more in line with regular citizens.
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Monolith
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 1:18pm |
It varies from person to person. What their individual religious beliefs allow them to accept or not. Certainly, the Vatican has not taken an official position on Asgard. ;-)
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Spectral Knight
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 1:35pm |
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Thanks!
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EvilMonkeyPope
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 4:10pm |
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What was the reason for the Asgardians and other pantheons being absent for centuries from Earth and reappearing when the superheroes originated?
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Monolith
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Posted: 03-Feb-2010 at 4:17pm |
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The Celestials decreed it during the Third Host. Odin, Zeus and the other Highfathers were forced to submit to their demands.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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Gilps
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Posted: 04-Feb-2010 at 11:25am |
Originally posted by Monolith
It varies from person to person. What their individual religious beliefs allow them to accept or not. Certainly, the Vatican has not taken an official position on Asgard. ;-) |
You'd think that the existence of the Asgardian, Olympian and other gods would be the biggest challenge to established religions in the Marvel universe. well, that or the irrefutable proof of extra terrestrial civilisations far more advanced than our own. Of time travelling visitors (and indeed conquerers) turning up from tens of thousands of years in the future.
But religious types seem to be able to ignore all that and carry on regardless. The only thing anyone's ever got seriously worked up about is mutants demonstrating ongoing human evolution.
I like the conceit that the Earth of the Marvel universe is, despite all these things, essentially the same of their own. But it doesn't half require a massive suspension of disbelief when it comes to things like this.
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Spectral Knight
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Posted: 04-Feb-2010 at 3:39pm |
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Perhaps it serves to underline rather than challenge their faith - if that god can appear, why can't their personal God?
Monolith, have any of the modern major world religions' deity/deities been shown in the context of the MU as an actual person/identity like the Asgardans and Olympians have. I am assuming the Abrahamic religion's 'God' hasn't been shown, but what about the Hindu pantheon or Taoist Gods? (Know they've shown other historical religions, but don't know about today's followed religions).
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Blackcyclops
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Posted: 05-Feb-2010 at 4:33am |
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Most of the world's religions have...
In some instances Angels, Demons, and Lucifer have appeared. Its been insinuated that One Above All is "God"...
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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Cable
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Posted: 05-Feb-2010 at 5:03am |
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Muhammad hasn't appeared in a Marvel comic yet.
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EvilMonkeyPope
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Posted: 05-Feb-2010 at 6:13am |
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He's a historical prophet not a Deity.
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Archangel
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Posted: 07-Feb-2010 at 4:52am |
Putting Muhammad in a comic gets people killed, so don't count on it ever happening. As I understand it depicting the prophet in any way visually is considered blasphemy.
Got me thinking, though... have they ever tried to put Jesus in a Marvel comic?
Edited by Archangel - 07-Feb-2010 at 4:54am
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Donny, you're out of your element!
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EvilMonkeyPope
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Posted: 07-Feb-2010 at 4:58am |
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There was the Aquarian.
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Blackcyclops
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Posted: 08-Feb-2010 at 1:57pm |
Originally posted by EvilMonkeyPope
There was the Aquarian. |
LMAO....
I know Moses has technically appeared...but never Jesus...
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"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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Monolith
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Posted: 08-Feb-2010 at 3:21pm |
Jesus appeared in the old Ghost Rider series. By the power of his love, Johnny Blaze was freed of his pact with Satan and no longer owed his soul to Hell.
...then the next writer thought that was crap, and retconned it so that Jesus was actually Satan in disguise, playing head games with Johnny.
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Charisma: the fine line between winning them over with charm and ruling them by fear.
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RingOtaku
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Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 3:42am |
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Yeah but offically he was never called Jesus in the book. He was "The Friend" lol
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Alex I do everything like a hawk.
This isn't DC Comics -- Marvel continuity doesn't die out if you don't water it often enough.
The whole Batman idea is a very childish response to childhood trauma.
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