Morrison,His Place in History

As some of you know I'm going through and re-reading the Morrison run. In my initial read through I was upset by alot of it. I didn't like Xorn being Magneto, didn't like the death of Darkstar, Jean's death, the outing of the Institution, and such...However, now that I am re-reading it I have  much broader perspective. And in many ways I feel as though, while not as long as Claremont's great run, Morrison's run is the third great X-Men run (the first being Stan Lee's run which set the groundwork). Do you agree or disagree? Do you agree with the things Morrison did? Why or why not? This isn't a critique of the writers after him...but a look at what Morrison did and how it can be seen in the halls of great X-Runs....

Nope, I don't think it was a great run either.

The problem with Morrison is when he writes a comic it isn't "An X-men comic or a Batman comic" it's a "Morrison comic". In the case of X-Men he didn't care about continuity, about portarying characters correctly(Emma's complete 180 into mega-bitch for example or Beast at his random "I'm gay" thing, Sage, Magneto..) and currently in Batman it's the same thing. He even has Bat-Corps. Morrison picked and choose random continuity there, ignoring the fifty or so Crisis that came before him. Morrison comes in and makes sweeping changes to fit his vision. It doesn't matter what came before it or even it even fits the theme of the X-Men, Morrison wanted to tell his tale.

Look at Hickman's run on Fantastic Four. It's best run in decades. It's unique, it's fun, it's dramatic, big changes are happening to the characters and to the FF universe as a whole but it always feels like it's a Fantastic Four story. That's going to be a story that matters in the history of FF comics and even Marvel comics.

Plus his female characters were appalling. Emma and Jean..ick. Jean's comment "All I ever did was die on you" still makes me mad. Seriously!?

Morrison's run is what got me more involved with reading issue to issue in the X-Franchise, instead of just reading summaries on here. I liked his Emma (though I have a soft spot for snarky, bougouis b*tches), his dissolution of Scott & Jean (whom both were growing apart after 'Cyclopolypse' and her 'becoming' Phoenix again), and I really liked Magneto as Xorn....until it was retconed. However I wasn't too fond of the black leather or Beast's new look (or the whole "I'm gay" thing which turns out was just him being hateful....Wha?).

Some of his concepts were a little out there for me, but I was never super off put by anything that happened.

Oh, I would like to throw out a special BELGH to Morrison for the whole Xorn-Magneto thing. I liked Xorn when he introduced him. I didn't need him to be Magneto. And then - Magneto's whole plan sucks. Which I know was Morrison's concept, show how Magneto is only as bad as the very men he claims to fight against and that he's just not connected to the "current" generation - but I don't give a crap. I love Magneto. And Morrison's terrible usage of him makes me dislike his run the more I think about it.

So yeah!

I'm firmly in the disagreement. And though in hindsight, I'm glad that we now have Magneto in Legacy, I thought it was really telling that Magneto served better as an ideal (the 'Magneto was Right' t-shirts for example) than an actual leader. He was out of touch, I mean Morrison was bringing the X-Men to the present (if not pushing into the 21st Century) and Magneto was raised during the freaking Holocaust. The generational gap would in fact be there. Once again - hindsight - glad he's still with us, but I also was freaking shocked to see Magneto revealed in that last panel as Xorn.

Also, Morrison intro'd the Stepford Cuckoos, whom I love. Again, snarky, bougious b*tches times 5.   

And the sad part is I get your part QD, I think what it is for me is the idea of Magneto that I love. Morrison really was calling into question alot of things X-fans hold dear. One of them is Magneto. Even when Stan Lee or Claremont would "kill" him (and Stan Lee Silver Age killed him alot LOL), we always hoped for Magneto's return because he's MAGNETO. Morrison did something worse then kill him, he showed us that Magneto is obsolete. In some ways it leads to the current place we see Magneto. His ideas are obsolete.

I think its also another reason people who don't like Morrison is that he essentially called Xavier obsolete. I mean one thing I never ever thought about until Morrison (and really until this year) was that Xavier was "working for peaceful coexistence" by having the X-Men beat up bad mutants. Like I get that as a superhero book they have to fight people, otherwise it gets boring. But nothing Xavier or the X-men did during Claremont's run or any after that really fought the problem of bigotry. I mean we'd get an After School special issue every once and awhile but the greatest X-Men run of all time was great because of the characters not because they actually did anything truthfully to progress the "dream". Morrison (and to a lesser degree the opening of the Generation X team) was the one to really set up the X-world in a sense that tackled this dream head on. And when it did it kinda really did make Xavier MLK, in the sense that his Civil Rights Era tactics are no longer valid. A new model had to be devised...And that rubs fans the wrong way. Because as Xtreme pointed out, he wasn't doing what we expect as a X-Men story. Moreso than the FF or Avengers, the X-Men started out as a book on ideas. The Avengers were formed because a baddie was too tough for them solo so let's tackle it together (plus Stan saw the JLA). The Fantastic Four exist as a book about a family exploring stuff (very Swiss Family Robinson). The X-Men in the purest essence is about ideas and such. Morrison brought that property to the forefront. Which was different than what we were used to. Which was this idea playing in the background.

Well Magneto's found a way to be used...and Xavier is now being a dad to LEgion...Something I think is worth a series all in itself but thats just me. Xavier having to be a dad to his own kid, instead of others. Yeah Xavier and Magneto were some really f***ed up parents LOL...but back on topic...

@grief- Thats why i had issues with Morrison's portrayal of Magneto. Magneto has always been THE villain for me. Like Superman fans have Luther, Batman fans have the Joker, and Spider-Man fans have the Goblins...we've had Magneto. So to see him portray Magneto essentially as the New Black Panther party, ie a group that originally even had merits but now just look silly and don't even do anything for their own cause besides look like clowns.

Funny that the two characters I think Morrison impacted the most positively, everyone seem to be the ones most of you guys say he ruined. I think his Cyclops and Jean were the sole character highlights of his run.

I see Morrison's run as the second act of the X-Men saga.  Xavier created the school, trained the kids , sought to help mutants in a world that feared and hated them, and defended the public against the threats of radicals like Magneto.  Thats the basis of the X-men that everyone knows, and they coasted on that basis for years.  Relationships between the characters evolved, different baddies were fought, and many different storylines were introduced which played on the idea of how a hated and feared minority would be treated in this world.  Tons of important events took place, and some awesome stories were told, but the basis of the initial concept was still the same.

Morrison took that central idea to the next logical step in my eyes.  The population exploded as the tagline of "next step in human evolution" became a reality.  The dream Xavier believed in began to come to realization as mutants began to integrate more into the world instead of hiding in shadows.  Humans fear of mutantkind began to turn into envy.  The X-Men were more of an organization fighting to help mutants on a more global public scale.  Secondary mutations began to spring up, emphasizing the idea of evolution as a continual process.  There was alot going on where the best ideas from the X-men franchise were expanded upon and Morrison basically showed us what would happen next. 

The progressive nature of the run is what caught my attention.  My surprising attraction to the cast is what kept it.  usually I follow comics because of the characters, and this one had my least favorite X-Men members in it.  But they worked pretty darn well under Morrisons pen.  The Cyclops and Wolverine mutual respect dynamic was great.  The portrayal of the Scott-Jean marriage falling apart under the weight of her ascendance and his uncertainty was brilliant.  Emma exploding onto the scene stole the show with her layers of bitchiness and vulnerability.  Xorn was so interesting that I hated and loved to see him revealed as fake at the same time. This cast had my undivided attention.  And I loved their casual black outfits too. 

I figured this thread could last long without a stab at Fraction lol...gotta love it lol...

Originally posted by Blackcyclops Funny that the two characters I think Morrison impacted the most positively, everyone seem to be the ones most of you guys say he ruined. I think his Cyclops and Jean were the sole character highlights of his run.

I don't know. I really need examples of how Jean was a highlight in this run. Besides her badass scene with Emma, Jean was hardly a character but that attached to Scott and not exactly a "winning" moment for Jean as a person. And the Phoenix thing was again less about Jean and more about her becoming this ultimate power and another excuse for Scott to cheat.

And lastly, any development he could have done with her was ruined by the "All I ever did was die on you" which was just insulting to the character and to what Scott did to her. Basically she excused his cheating.

And Scott/Emma making out over Jean's grave(due to jean's "pushing") was also gross.

Originally posted by Blackcyclops Originally posted by XtremeOne1 Originally posted by Blackcyclops Funny that the two characters I think Morrison impacted the most positively, everyone seem to be the ones most of you guys say he ruined. I think his Cyclops and Jean were the sole character highlights of his run. I don't know. I really need examples of how Jean was a highlight in this run. Besides her badass scene with Emma, Jean was hardly a character but that attached to Scott and not exactly a "winning" moment for Jean as a person. And the Phoenix thing was again less about Jean and more about her becoming this ultimate power and another excuse for Scott to cheat.And lastly, any development he could have done with her was ruined by the "All I ever did was die on you" which was just insulting to the character and to what Scott did to her. Basically she excused his cheating.And Scott/Emma making out over Jean's grave(due to jean's "pushing") was also gross. hey i didn't say it was a perfect portrayal LOL...and that line...well its cringe-worthy their is no ignoring that. But up until Planet X (which seemed like a clusterf*** at times), Jean was really taking the reins. You could see that her path wasn't that of being of Xavier 2.0 or white Storm or Cyclops' girl. Instead she was forming her own much maternal but still stern presence in the X-world know. Now I'm not saying Cyclops psychic affair is excusable but anything that could have happened you or any fan of Jean is going to say is an excuse for him to cheat. Thats mainly because you guys are fans of Jean and going to be on her side of things. Which is funny because its like making her a victim...which I guess goes in with the character Jean had become for some time. Morrison was trying to change that imo. The fact is Jean was moving beyond him, finally LOL. I'm sorry but once Jean came back in X-Factor #1 Jean hasn't really had a true stand-out personality. We had glimpses of that when the Gold team first formed but its like once X-Cutioner's Song hit, it seemed like the writers of the comic were trying to mimic the cartoon and made her more like that Stan Lee Jean then any type of strong female character. And maybe she wasn't meant to be. I mean not every female X-Man can be the personification of some feminist ideal (especially since not every woman in real life is), but I had those types of hopes for Jean. Again I'm not saying it was perfect. But Morrison's Jean was strong and really forming her own stance on things, instead of following lockstep behind Cyclops or Xavier. The more I re-read it the more I see Morrison should have gotten rid of Xavier and kept Jean. But thats a whole different thing LOL. I don't like the complication to the Phoenix mythos Morrison brought (which was really never simple LOL), but the fact that Jean seemed to be controlling it instead of it using her I saw it as her taking control of alot of her life. Of course these are just my interpretations and yeah it was definitely problems toward the end, but I think up until Planet X his Jean was better than we'd seen in a long time. I haven't got that far again and my memory is bad on that point but I don't remember if they just kissed or made out...but if they made out that is gross. But the push from Jean was needed because Cyclops was going to choose her then.

I'm sorry but Jean 'moving beyond' isn't an excuse for cheating. And I don't think saying Cyke a scumbug makes Jean a victim anymore than any woman who is cheated on. I mean let's use an example of a normal housewife who has been dependent on her husband her whole life. Eventually she begins to grow, gets a job, a new zest for life so she changes, becomes a different person. Her husband goes through a near death experience(gets taken over by an ancient mutant). They grow apart, neither of them really trying to go out of their way to repair the marriage, though the wife brings up the distance thing one time(Jean did bring up Scott's distance once...) And then her husband cheats on her. Who is in the wrong? And does that make her a victim in the truest sense of the word? I'm never a fan of the excuse "It takes three to tango" when it comes to cheating, like the person being cheated on is somehow to blame for growing. If Scott had a problem with Jean, felt disconnected with her he should have been man enough to tell her that and to ask for a separation. Yet he cheated and he kept cheating.

And hey I agree with you completely. Jean Grey never really got to have a personality. I'm not a fan of her, per say but more of a fan of what she could be if she ever comes back and the potential her character has. She's always been weighed down by something Phoenix, Scott, Wolverine(who, she kissed like three times...so no she isn't a victim but kissing doesn't exactly make it even).

Morrison really just did more of the same. She had her hands on the reigns not because she was Jean Grey but because was the Phoenix. She wasn't really a character but an all mighty plot device(sort of like Hope). Sure she had some interesting character moments but Jean did shine or did the Phoenix shine. I guess since they're one in the same...it was Jean but I'm in the camp that Jean isn't Phoenix and I only say this because I think it's the only way for Jean to actually get a personality.

Send her back sans Phoenix. Have her not be Scott and not be with Wolverine. Have her just be Jean and give her an actual personality besides "I AM PHOENIX! SCOTTT!!!!! Logan I can't..."

I think you misinterpreted me (or maybe I didn't say it clearly enough...probably that one LOL), I wasn't blaming Jean beyond the fact that they grew apart. That's it. Like you said they grew apart, they both are at fault for them drifting apart. But it is Cyclops that chose to do the psychic affair. Never said it was Jean

What I was saying is that you brought up excuse and I was saying that as a fan of Jean would see anything Morrison presented as being used as an excuse. I wasn't saying it was an excuse. I brought up making her a victim because I felt that just as Cyclops should have been man enough to say something, taking pity on Jean like she's powerless (not in the sense of actual power but in control of her life) makes her a victim in my eyes. I hope that makes sense LOL

I thought they had one psychic affair, when did he keep cheating? And did they make out on her grave or just kiss? I don't have the issues on hand, I'm purchasing the TPB and reading them.


@UncannyScott- But thats the point Morrison was conveying. Of course he could be reinvented. Hell anything is possible if the writer wants to do it. Just like Claremont could have made Xavier mindwipe Magneto a long time ago or whatever. Morrison chose to portray this idea that those old ways of thinking are obsolete. Like others pointed out he was creating the 21st Century idea of mutation. So to him this idea of clandestine mutant school trying to change the idea of mutants by simply punching stuff (because thats pretty much all the X-Men became) was archaic. I mean it's funny that in practice the X-Men are a superhero team but based on what they are meant to do they should be lobbying, creating jobs, etc. But thats boring stuff LOL we want to see them beat up bad mutants and stop alien invasions. Morrison saw it in his run to show ways that the X-Men could do just that. So for Magneto its like the changes in war. From upfront regal conflict to the guerrilla war we face now. Again of course he could have changed up Magneto (although if he reinvented him too much in the DC sense, Marvel fans would get mad. We are much more sticklers for continuity...because you know we actual have some LOL), instead he chose to use Magneto as the symbol of these old ideas.

Funniest part of all this is that I still don't terribly like this run. On a meta level and even as a work/critique/evolution on the franchise its brilliant at times. But as a fun read it doesn't grab me the way earlier and later runs do. Which is similar to 90% of Morrison's work for me.

Edited by Blackcyclops - 20-Jan-2011 at 7:26am