Morrison,His Place in History

Originally posted by Blackcyclops I think you misinterpreted me (or maybe I didn't say it clearly enough...probably that one LOL), I wasn't blaming Jean beyond the fact that they grew apart. That's it. Like you said they grew apart, they both are at fault for them drifting apart. But it is Cyclops that chose to do the psychic affair. Never said it was Jean What I was saying is that you brought up excuse and I was saying that as a fan of Jean would see anything Morrison presented as being used as an excuse. I wasn't saying it was an excuse. I brought up making her a victim because I felt that just as Cyclops should have been man enough to say something, taking pity on Jean like she's powerless (not in the sense of actual power but in control of her life) makes her a victim in my eyes. I hope that makes sense LOL I thought they had one psychic affair, when did he keep cheating? And did they make out on her grave or just kiss? I don't have the issues on hand, I'm purchasing the TPB and reading them.

I happened multiple times. It definitely happened twice on panel. And I think it was implied it happened more than that too.

And yes they kissed over her grave, I was over-exaggerating with the making out but kissing over your recently deceased wife/life long friends grave is just gross.


Edited by XtremeOne1 - 20-Jan-2011 at 7:29am

I must say that I'm quite pleased by the fact that most people here seem to dislike the Morrisson era.

Brubaker, Fraction & Whedon made their marks, I cannot deny that, but ALL of them worked with what was there, and continued from that point.

Edited by JanO - 20-Jan-2011 at 10:17am

Quitely IS very much an acquired taste. His work is not very compatible with main-stream-comics, so I can understand why people dislike it. Silvestri is pretty great, but he did 4 issues?

What JanO, and I think X-Treme too earlier, said is one of the problems. Morrison doesn't write the X-Men or Batman or Superman. He writes Morrison books staring the X-Men or Batman. Bring up strange things that you dont' expect or wont' carry on for the next, and actually do make the stories sometimes feel like standalone Kingdom Come like stories that Lorr just mentioned. Besides the small things that remain from New X-Men, you almost could swear that it was something that was it's own story outside of continuity.

With the ideas of Morrison's that actually moved the X-Men forward again like returning to the school idea and all the kid mutants, bigger population, X-Men actually working towards the dream in a way, etc they would have been better coming from him as a consultant for the X-Line. Him offering the ideas and others executing them. Cause it was the other stuff like characterization and crazy plots that came around those ideas that really seem to ruin that time period for a lot of people. I really think that Marvel did the wrong thing after his run though. They held it well for a bit with Academy X and such, carrying on the idea of the school and there being more mutants out there. But then they tried to wipe out everything that came from the run with Decimation. With the loss of all those mutants at the start of Morrison's run, after he left they easily could have kept there being a bigger mutant population but had it not be that huge.

Don't know about the Brubraker hate either Ajandrew. Besides Deadly Genesis and the flimsy Vulcan being the third Summers, He told some good stories. Even though I don't like Vulcan much I liked the Shi'ar arc a lot. Same with the Morlock one.

I think what really helped All-Star Superman was that it was an alternate reality story, setting it apart from the regular continuity. It wasn't like New X-Men or current Batman being compared to what came right before and what came after (which we haven't seen for Batman just yet but probably will soon enough). All-Star Superman comes off as a good 'Superman' story to most non uber fans or newcomers to the character besides media portrayals.

The art was pretty bad indeed. As for Morrison bring back X-Fans, the scope of some of his ideas like the bigger population or such seemed intriguing compared to how the steady 90's were. It sounded like change and big things and no doubt worked to hook people in to check it out which in a way shows their plan worked in a sense. Cause they threw out the bait and fans grabbed on, and after that it's sort of hard to let go once you are hooked. It's like the current stuff, people don't like certain things but in some cases keep reading cause it's hard to let go for that collector's sense some have or on the other hand that hope that things will turn around if you just keep reading. Same with Morrison. People got reeled in and then either actually liked the stories or just kept hoping it would end soon or turn out better.

Genosha's Destruction: A bunch of GIGANTIC dead-machines just destroy the island? Millions of mutants could not stop that? And best of all, off-panel for the most part?

single dumbest idea he ever had.

The problem with Mutant Town and the Mutant Culture is instead of Morrison slowly introducing these concepts over the course of his run and showing the RISE of such a social sub-culture he just flipped a switch. There was no statement in continuity to the effect of "okay yeah we are skipping a year or so here during which all this came about". It was like "barely enough mutants who aren't costumed peeps to fill a Mutant Town" to "so many we can do this and STILL pick and choose to fill out the school to capacity." There was no explanation given for why the population suddenly skyrocketed and formed these cultures and it was implied to have happened basically overnight.

the way I understood the "Mutant Town" concept is that these individuals had peiced together their lives behind the scenes and we were being introduced to the result.

Originally posted by marhawkman the way I understood the "Mutant Town" concept is that these individuals had peiced together their lives behind the scenes and we were being introduced to the result.

That's how I saw it too. I mean again the X-Men had spent so much time just being superheroes that alot of mutant politics were happening without them being involved. I mean outside the situation with Genosha and Magneto...what other story showed the X-Men being these beacons of progressive mutants? Most of the time during the 90s they just fought bad guys who were trying to either take over the world or exterminate mutants. Not saying thats bad, far from it, but it's not impossible for something like Mutant Town to come about without the X-Men really noticing.

But Xtreme has a point, that was a huge jump. I just don't remember pre-Morrison there every being a time when someone spoke on the mutant potential.

The problem with the numbering is that even with Morrison he never really quantified the number. Sixteen million people were wiped out on Genosha, but it never said if that was all mutants. People just went with that number and then since it said half the mutant population was wiped out (could have been like three million mutants there, meaning 6 million in the world or something, who knows lol) people then went on to assume from that there had been 32 million mutants around the world. Morrison or the editors never really came out and clarified the amount of mutants there really were till they decimated them.

With Mutant Town I can see something like that, one area of a huge city, sort of having been growing in the background and then suddenly the human residents going and looking around with a "Oh sh*t where did they all come from?" having been wrapped up in their own lives and noticing the gradual change. The 90's pretty much focused on the X-Men at the mansion and fighting big threats to mutants as a whole or the world. They didn't really get around and check no how mutants around the city were doing or fighting for their rights or such.

While there were a lot of mutants on Genosha, a lot having been those infected with the Legacy Virus that Magneto offered safe haven to and then being cured by Colossus' sacrifice, far as I recall back there were still a lot of humans there too. Some antagonistic and some friendly to mutants. And the mutates and such. While the idea of mutants growing to be more than just a handful either being X-Men or their enemies was a good thing, it didn't really work all too well cause it was a sudden increase and such. Perhaps they figured we were to assume that a lot of those children were around the same age and their mutant powers popped up during the six month gap....as stupid as that would be lol.

Would that be called Flatscan flight? The superpowered cousin of white flight lol

And that's something that could have been presented by Morrison. One of the flaws I do see with Morrison's run, is that Morrison expects a lot from the readers. Now I'm always for a writer giving fans the credit of being intelligent. But Morrison expects us to be okay with a very big tonal shift in the book without at least showing how it came about. I mean I liked the small scenes we got that showed mutant culture but he could have used the students he created to at least talk about the growth of the mutant online community or so on...

One issue we have even discussed alot yeah is his handling of Beast and the Shi'ar. Morrison did a lot of things to Beast that I think translated to his later treatment by writers. In many ways Morrison abused Beast. As for the Shi'ar, I think he too carelessly touched on that aspect of the X-world. I know not alot of people on here like the X-Men in space but I always have a special space in my heart for the Shi'ar, and Morrison just kinda nonchalantly addressed it without really giving me that true feel of the Shi'ar...