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Gibbering Fool
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 2:19pm |
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Oh how I miss the 617, but on the other hand it was a prime example of how a joint continuity fan fic group can just die when its lead editor/writer leaves. 617, All Star, X-M; they all died out out but the General Section stayed strong. For a while at least.
I think THOIN had this wave of writers back went its started, but we haven't managed to "repopulate" enough to replace the writers that've left, or aren't writing much of anything these days (ie me). Josh is spot on about advertising. There's at site, the Fanfare I think, that awesomely links to all the Marvel and DC fanficion sites. Would be worth checking out to tn
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Guthrie.P
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 3:54pm |
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The General Section died off for the same reason. Surely the aim of the game would be to find someone, or a team of people who weren't likely to desert. Stalwarts on the site. There is no security. The appeal of Marvel Omega and Marvel/DC Anthology is that they are a community project, and there is a sense of instant gratification. Yes, writers can sometimes lose interest in a title but the editors can always rely on someone else to step in and help close up story threads. There's also a "vibe" with these independent sites, a lot of the writers communicate externally and make plans together concerning their titles, and then there's also the bonus of images on the sites - which adds to the "comic" feel of them.
THOIN is a young site, and it could easily learn from it's older counterparts. I mean, those sites are were it lost most of its writers too. It was a lack of community for most of them.
Meriades is no longer running the Marvel Fanfare. It was time consuming and he had real life to deal with. His sole focus is on writing at the moment, so really the Marvel Fanfare isn't an option.
GMM
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das_boot
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 5:22pm |
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I think the main reason people started to lose interest was because of lack of feedback. I know it was certainly an issue for me when the only feedback I was getting was from Xtreme. I'm not blaming anyone, or bitter, because it's really difficult to think that someone is going to read through 20 plus issues to be caught up. I know it's something I'm occasionally guilty of if I miss a title and then suddenly I see it's up to issue 9 or 10, I'll just try and jump on and hope that I haven't missed too much. It's tough, because I certainly don't feel like people should HAVE to read everything that's posted, and frankly there's always going to be something that you don't like for whatever reason, so you'll never be able to give objective, constructive criticism. No one should be FORCED to read anything they don't want to, but I think it can be difficult, especially if you actually like the poster in question...
Solicits are a good idea, and frankly I wish we had more artists on board so that we could get a strong fan-art section going, and perhaps even our first actual web comic, which would be cool. There's so much potential on THOIN and so many talented writers. So, let's say we all sit down, get some writing done and bring the community back to what it was, shall we chaps?
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XtremeOne1
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 5:47pm |
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Yeah I agree with booty. I think the main reason people left was lack of feedback which directly lead to lack of writing which lead to lack of updating. We had a good year or two of really just the General Section booming and in fact, for most of THOIN's existence, it was basically mostly GS. Feedbacking was our sense of community. Back in the day, there were lots of feedbacking and that's when we thrived most.
And I agree, in no way should someone feel obligated to feedback EVERY title. That's a bit much. No one will be forced to feedback(save for the editors :-p, but they'll only have to feedback the titles they are proofreading). But I do think feedbacking is what gives us our community feel and not just the "shared universes".
I think we've had two Eras. The 617 Era, which was when 617 was booming and X-M and All*Star were born and thriving and than the GS Era, which is when people were mostly writing for the GS Section and we had little "shared universe" movement. Back in the GS Era we had plenty of updates, so I don't think it's the "shared universe" thing.
And also I think it's commitment. I think that's where all of us struggle. We have real lives and writing fan fiction titles of our design just isn't a top priority sometimes. When I'm exhausted and tired, I want to relax, when I have free time, I want to go out. It's all about finding the time to write and I'm really going to try and do that now. So yeah I guess that's where the "Shared Universe" thing works best. If someone loses their commitment, you can always find someone else to take their place. Not so much with titles in the General Section.
I think it would be awesome if we could get a shared universe up and running again. I think the Omniverse has great potential but so far only one person is writing for it. I think maybe whoever is in charge of the project(Booty and Scott right?) should make another thread about it and see who's interested in what, and I mean REALLY interested.
A webcomic would be awesome. That would be really cool if we can expand the site that way. But yeah right now we all need to sit down and write!
I've got two stories in the wait(COTA and Exiles). I'd love more. Remember the NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS is XtremeCota@gmail.com.
Meanwhile I'm going to continue to try and think of a list of places we can advertise. Again I think a pretty banner would help and a nice looking update or two before I start sending out the ads.
I think we're going to be sort of under a banner theme too "Regenesis" Das_boot came up with the name. I like it :).
So yeah I'm going to get my Don Draper hate on and start thinking of a catchy way to get people over here. And if someone is good at making banners, PM me!
Edited by XtremeOne1 - 04-Sep-2011 at 5:51pm
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Crawler
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 6:49pm |
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If lack of feedback is the reason folks stop writing, then they're probably not all that into writing in the first place. Marvel Omega, I'm lucky if one person reads every third or fourth issue I write sometimes. You'll have to consider that if you're planning on pouring energy back into THOIN that there likely won't be a great return on that energy.
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Guthrie.P
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 7:26pm |
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Marvel Omega, and the Anthology's don't get much feedback though. It's the interpersonal relations of those sites, and the sense of community that keeps them going. Maybe not necessarily a shared universe but definitely a shared participation. Still, I wish you all the best of luck.
GMM
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RingOtaku
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 8:05pm |
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I need to dust off my started fic "War Within" and finish it off. I just got distracted by IRL stuff and lost my momentum. Far as I know what I did write is still on THOIN.
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Alex I do everything like a hawk.
This isn't DC Comics -- Marvel continuity doesn't die out if you don't water it often enough.
The whole Batman idea is a very childish response to childhood trauma.
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XtremeOne1
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 9:04pm |
Originally posted by Guthrie.P
Marvel Omega, and the Anthology's don't get much feedback though. It's the interpersonal relations of those sites, and the sense of community that keeps them going. Maybe not necessarily a shared universe but definitely a shared participation. Still, I wish you all the best of luck.
GMM
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But they are a shared universe and that brings them a sense of community. What brings the General Section community is the feedbacking because that's the only shared participation. It's not just 'OMG YOUR STORY IS AWESOME!" because well that's not feedbacking, but it was the "Oh that was a surprise" and the "Yeah didn't like that" and the "I hope this happens" which brought up discussions and new ideas. And when it came to the Family Section it was conversation/feedback between the reader and the writer that lead to the growth of that section. That's how Champions of Erith grew. In terms of the GS section, if we all just put up stories and say nothing, there is ZERO community, because feedbacking is the only real sense of shared participation, unless we do things like "spotlight ons..." and other specials.
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UncannyScott
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 9:30pm |
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Feedbacking is definitely something that needs to happen. If it doesn't, people should never really give up on writing because your not always going to get feedback or words. I've written a lot of things over the last six or seven years since I joined here and other places and if I counted the amount of feedback I've gotten verse the issues I've had released it wouldn't even come close to adding up as feedback has been sparse. There have been times I'm disappointed I didn't get feedback or kind words or an issue that pops and is recommended by a lot of people or won an award or such, and I start to wonder if its all worth it but I brush it aside because I love writing and I still want my writing out there even if people are only silently reading it without ever saying they are.
I've made it my personal mission this year to use the downtime that I have to do feedback all over the net at the places I write at and like to read at or friends write at to give back to the fan fiction community. Because one can't expect feedback if they never give it. Which in a way makes the whole process grind to a halt like it did here cause Person A is waiting for feedback from Person B and Person C who are also waiting for it from each other and A and so the feedback never comes. Someone has to be the one to just say "Hell I'll do it" and just give the feedback to others and wait to see if karma repays them for doing it. If it doesn't sometimes you just have to say oh well and move on and keep writing and offering words to others because one day they will feedback you and the effort will have been worth it.
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Justin Santos
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Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 10:19pm |
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Well, I still want to do something with my Avengers in All*star, don't know when I'll put something together for that, currently committed to my MO projects which I'm sure one of my issues will go up this month and I'm not too concerned on whether it will get feedback or not since the last two issues haven't been read.
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UncannyScott
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Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 12:40am |
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Oh I'm sure they have been read. The thing with fan fiction is that you can pretty much usually assume that someone has read the issue. They just don't feedback it or even comment on it. Its a funny thing cause we all crave some feedback even if its just a paragraph of comments yet we find it hard to find the time to offer that to others sometimes or don't want to or any number of reasons why not.
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grief
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Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 1:35am |
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I barely read any fanfic, hence my usually terribly low amount of feedback. >.< I like writing more than reading.
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Winner of Best 617 Hero for 2007 - Magneto (Magneto Cado Rex)
First (and only?) winner of Story of the Month for August 09 - misseDirections #3
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marhawkman
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Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 6:10pm |
Originally posted by UncannyScott
Oh I'm sure they have been read. The thing with fan fiction is that you can pretty much usually assume that someone has read the issue. They just don't feedback it or even comment on it. Its a funny thing cause we all crave some feedback even if its just a paragraph of comments yet we find it hard to find the time to offer that to others sometimes or don't want to or any number of reasons why not. |
Yeah, it's kinda discouraging to not get feedback. :(
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Skrulls rule! Now you can learn to read skrull: http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/gallery/30658027#/d1mujcm
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Gibbering Fool
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Posted: 06-Sep-2011 at 5:53am |
Originally posted by Guthrie.P
Meriades is no longer running the Marvel Fanfare. It was time consuming and he had real life to deal with. His sole focus is on writing at the moment, so really the Marvel Fanfare isn't an option.
GMM
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I knew it wasn't being updated anymore. I just meantwe could look at the old updates on the site and find a pretty comprehensive list of Marvel and DC fan fic sites we could go and advertise on.
As for feedback, I admit I'm one of the "shallow" people that lose the motivation to write a fan fic if I'm not getting feedback on it. Not because I need "OMG you iz an awesomes writter dood!" but because it tells me that people are actually reading it. Some people write to get their ideas down, or to practice their skills, others write for the accolades, and some write to entertain people. I don't think any of us are exclusively in one group, I think there's varying degrees of each in all of us. 
XtremeOne: Thanks for reminding me of those happy days when Champions of Erith was taking its first steps into a larger universe. Its sad it didn't quite make it.
Edited by Gibbering Fool - 06-Sep-2011 at 5:53am
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UncannyScott
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Posted: 06-Sep-2011 at 8:41am |
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With my goal to start up major feedback going on, suggest titles to me that you think are great and should get some feedback and I'll add them to my list. My goal is to do feedback for as many things as I can. Things that have writers that are still here and active of course lol. I'm doing feedback all over the net from Marvel Omega to Marvel Anthology to JLU 2001 to here and beyond. Hopefully it won't burn me out lol.
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Kipe
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Posted: 06-Sep-2011 at 5:05pm |
I like the Regenesis banner idea.
I'm good at designing things like banners, though I wouldn't know how to code them ect. in order to make it to where it links. I can, however, come up with a banner design based on Regenesis and see if you guys like it.
Okay, I'm looking at THOIN right now and I'd like to make a few suggestions. I know it's important that we write and get material (I'm plotting my one-shot, been thinking about it while I'm building this patio lol) but I think we should also approach how the site looks and appears to new people.
For one, if the X-M, 617, and All-Star aren't really going on anymore or are being put off until a later date, we should move them down on the navigation list. The Family Section and General Section should really be on top because they are the most likely to be actively updated. Best foot forward and all that.
Nobody else might care, but I think we could be more creative with naming. Having cool names for the sections/imprints that are more popping and eye-catching certainly can't hurt. For instance, Family Section is kind of misleading. "Family" makes it sound like the Disney section of the site lol. It sounds like the place for a Super Hero Squad fanfic. I know what the "Family Section" is as a writer/reader/contributor but if I were a new reader I would probably skip that section just because of the conotation. I really honestly think that calling the General Section the Independent Section or the Independent Imprint sounds a lot more interesting. For instance, if you were trying to get more people to go check out THOIN to look at your (or somebody else's) fanfic, which do you think sounds more exciting to them...."hey check out this fic I published in the General Section of THOIN", or "hey check out this new fic I posted in the Independent Imprint of THOIN." Really, that is what the General Section is...Independent writing.
I think we should try to sell that because it's something we have that a lot of other fanfic places don't, a place where you can come and try anything/throw things against the wall and see what sticks. The GS makes us less restrictive as a community to be able to enter. It makes us more inclusive. I definitely think that is a selling point. So when trying to sell that aspect of our site, I think Independent Imprint/Section sounds far more exciting. (independent really is a more appropriate adjective/descriptor than general)
I think maybe we should make a post or something in Random Thoughts to see if there is anybody who is good at web design that would like to help us. (Nobody in this thread has mentioned being good at those things, thus my assumption that most of us aren't lol).
If we did find such a person, one thing I'd like to talk to them about is whether or not there would be any way to install the ability to make comments/write feedback directly on the site. Like at the end of the story have a comments section where a reader could post feedback. (All kinds of news/entertainment sites have these after articles, so really, if somebody knew what they were doing it couldn't be that hard.) That would open up the possibility of feedback for writers/editors with readers who aren't registered to post on UXM.net. They could just read the story and then directly post feedback/comments while the story is still fresh in their mind. It seems like it would be a great advantage. Again, it encourages casual readers to also give feedback, not just the other writers who read about it in the update posted here.
Sorry more of my ideas aren't about writing, but these are the ideas that are coming to me so I'm sharing them. Josh, like you said, we need to advertise and sell the site more.
EDIT: Fan Art Gallery. We need to be pimping that too. It's also something I think should go at the top of the navigation list.
@Grief, I know you have a lot of awesome fan art on your devient account. Maybe you could post some of it here too! Your Age of X fan art is fresh and new, I think it would be cool to have it on THOIN. There's also Caenman and Anna Raven that do a lot of fan art. Has anybody ever really asked them to post some of it on our Fan Gallery too?
It would be cool if the Fan Gallery was set up to where you could search by Artist and not just Character. Also, if we want to draw artists, we should promote them. None of the artists' names are even shown until you get down to the Latest Images Added on the main Fan Art Gallery page.
Edited by Kipe - 06-Sep-2011 at 5:22pm
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XtremeOne1
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Posted: 06-Sep-2011 at 11:26pm |
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I like all your ideas Kipe! I definitely I'm going to rename the General Section this weekend! I like Independent Imprint. Very catchy! Though I have to think of what to name the Family Section as it still needs it's own thing. Independent Imprint - Universes? *Shrugs* I'm too tired too think. But yeah I plan to work a lot on hopefully updating/advertising over the next two weekends.
And I really have no control over the Fan Art section. Never have. I forgot who use to be the editor. They sort of vanished into thin air, I think...
As for the feedback idea, as much as I love it, it's another think I have no control over. I can speak to the admins about it, but it might be a tricky thing. I'll ask though!
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UncannyScott
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 12:25am |
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Hmm the Family Section could be like the Multiverse or something, since it encompasses multiple universes within it.
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Kipe
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 2:51am |
The Multiversal Hub? Roma's Cantina? Otherworld Oubliette? Interdimensional Imprint?
Scott, do you know the title you guys are going to give to the Omniverse section? The Omniverse Imprint? I don't want us to name the Family section anything that might be confused with what your imprint will be called. Unless the Omniverse is going to be in the Family section lol.
So we need the admins' permission to do technical things to the site. We also need somebody who can do the technical things we want done. That tawner guy who designed the corner boxes for this site seems like a helpful fellow. Perhaps we can recruit him.
It would also be awesome if we could do something similar with the THOIN logo that they do here on the UXN logo, some kind of template where we could pick different images to fill up the inside of the letters. That would also make us look more congruent with our sister/mother site.
Josh, I'm so happy you like the Independent Imprint name. I love alliteration and the General Section name just sounds so meh to me lol.
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XtremeOne1
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 4:20am |
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Well remember guys, no universe will get it's own "section"(sidebar thingy...) until it's reached a certain number of issues. We had to make that rule do to the "Guys, I have a universe idea!" that popped up every week(sometimes, we'd just getting first time posters creating new names and be, "Look at my universe idea! Request to be a part of my greatness strangers!"
But of course, those rules are more than subject to change if I feel a universe is really taking off and becoming more than just a "Family Title" I don't think anything that says "dimensional" is good, only cause it's confusing.
Independent Imprint is perfect because it's exactly what it is, but it is simple, still sounds interesting, special and cool.
And yeah again Kipe, I would need someone who could do banner stuff for that. Please we need to decide what images to use.
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UncannyScott
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 4:21am |
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Most likely the Omniverse will stay just called the Omniverse as really not sure what else would work to call it lol. It will also stay in the Family Section. A universe has to reach a certain size to become its own tab/imprint within the choices. Can't remember what the needed amount of overall issues is, but I know its quite a bit. Its like a show going into syndication, you need a certain amount of episodes to back it up.
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Kipe
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 4:57am |
Re: Banners
I found a cool image or two of Marvel vs DC that I don't believe were on any covers. It could be used to show that we are universe inclusive. We could go with strictly Marvel characters. I wish they would come out with a Regenesis banner for the X-Titles so we could just rip whatever logo/font they use for Regenesis and slap it on an image lol.
I did make a banner today, but I'm not happy enough with it to present it. It was more like a practice run. I'm thinking that linking banners is actually probably not that hard. I'm going to look up a tutorial later.
I guess I could message tawner and ask him if he'd like to/has time to help us as well.
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Kipe
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 3:52pm |
Edit: Tawner, the lovely fellow that did the corner boxes for the site has agreed to design a banner for us. We need to figure out what dimensions the banner will be and exactly what text we want to be in it. We should find an image that we want to use too. So if anybody has any image ideas that would be awesome.
Double edit: SORRY, meant to edit my post not make another one.  I like, just woke up.
Edited by Kipe - 07-Sep-2011 at 3:53pm
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das_boot
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 5:37pm |
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I seem to remember that a title had to reach 20 issues before it was given it's own 'universe' designation.
I think Kipe has a good point, if people could feedback directly to the site and link it to the story, that'd be awesome. Although my worry would be that we'd potentially get a lot of trolls or anonymous negative "YOU SUCK?!?!?! LULZZZZ" comments, which whilst I couldn't give two craps, it could be off-putting to new writers.
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Ever wish you could receive life advice from one of your favourite characters? Send an email to comicadvicecolumn@gmail.com and see whose sage counsel you receive!
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Kipe
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Posted: 07-Sep-2011 at 9:14pm |
Well, it seems direct commenting would probably be off in the distance since it doesn't appear that any of us have the ability/permissions to make technical changes to the site.
If/when we did get direct commenting, it would take a little extra monitoring to remove any troll messages that might appear.
I know we can't do anything about it right now, but these are some pointers/advice Tawner gave about the web design/main page. I thought I would go ahead and post it here (because I don't necessarily understand it all lol) for the day when maybe we can reach that point.
As for advice, regarding the design of your front page, I'd make a couple of tweaks. Here are some suggestions to make it look cleaner.
Place the banner under the logo of your page, it's not nice that the banner takes more room on your website than your site's name.
Put the logos of the publishers in a smaller size on top of the page instead of below the navigation menu, the way they don't measure more than the logo of your page.
Change the Marvel box with the data for another kind of design or remove it completely (at the end of the day, you publish fan fic from a lot of different sources, not only Marvel, and we all have calendars in our computers)
Keep the typography consistent, you should have to use only one typeface, and as a way of telling apart what's title and what's text put the font in bold or a larger size. Also, regarding typographies, do not use Comic Sans... NEVER, and that's not a personal opinion, it gives an amateur look that you may not want to be related to. My suggestion is that you use either Verdana or Helvetica, in any case a font sans serif that's easy to read and doesn't have embellishements that disctract from the text.
For now, that's all I have to say, I'll look in more carefully on the saite to see what else I can tell you, and remember to give some guidelines for the banner, I'll send you something as soon as I can.
So again, we need to decide the dimensions of the banner. I'm guessing it's just going to be TheHouseOfIdeas.net and "Regenesis".
He seems pretty creative, so we could just let him do what he wants design wise. Unless somebody has any specific ideas/images for what to put on the banner besides the name and Regenesis. Also, I think a tagline telling what we are might be nice.
I was thinking of a tagline for the site, so that people know what we are. "Independent and Collective Fanfiction" Tell me whether you guys like it or have something better in mind.
Which brings me to my idea for the renaming of the Family Section. Collective Imprint or Collection Section. I think I like the latter better as it's pretty precisely descriptive and it rhymes.
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