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Grant Morrison on the death of comics

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Tyler5618 View Drop Down
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  Quote Tyler5618 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grant Morrison on the death of comics
    Posted: 31-Aug-2011 at 7:50pm
And other topics that make me wanna vom... his personality is so grating:
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/grant-morrison-on-the-death-of-comics-20110822
"So long as I remain true to myself, I see no reason to apologize for how I appear to others."
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  Quote Anna Raven Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 8:59am
He is rather full of himself but he makes a lot of great points. Especially about how comics are dying off because no one wants to pay for them anymore, they'd rather just get free stuff online.

But his sniping at Millar is trashy and annoying. And only partially because I like Millar's work like 150% more. It's like the old guy who is like "yeh but I fought that dude everything he knows!" when the protege winds up being better.
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Quireclops

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  Quote Kipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 6:54pm
My only problem with this interview is that Grant said he's done 30 years of comics without rape. Not true.
Lord Fanny was gang-raped as a prostitute before being recruited by John-A-Dreams in The Invisibles.
In The Filth there was a porn director who like, sapped the will of everyone who entered his house and there were orgies going on everywhere. Then the demonic super-sperm got free and started impregnating all females capable of reproduction within a so many mile radius. That's pretty rapey.
 
When people say people are full of themselves, I'm always a little confused. Exactly who else should they be full of? Tongue 
 
I don't really know much about the Morrison/Miller history so I won't comment.
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  Quote RingOtaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 9:19pm
Let me translate Grant's theory: I raped the DCU with Final Crisis and took all the money I could from Marvel while showing utter contempt for the fact they actually can define continuity so now I'm getting ready to jump the ship I set ablaze.
Alex I do everything like a hawk.
This isn't DC Comics -- Marvel continuity doesn't die out if you don't water it often enough.
The whole Batman idea is a very childish response to childhood trauma.
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  Quote Anti-Limbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 9:47pm
I didn't really find anything to take exception to from this. I actually agree with him completely when he talks about people not wanting to pay for comics. I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to pay for something that you can get for free, and I think it's that issue that is really killing comics. I don't know any of his history when it comes to Millar so I'll leave that alone.
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  Quote RingOtaku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by Anti-Limbo

I didn't really find anything to take exception to from this. I actually agree with him completely when he talks about people not wanting to pay for comics. I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to pay for something that you can get for free, and I think it's that issue that is really killing comics. I don't know any of his history when it comes to Millar so I'll leave that alone.
 
It's not just comics though. The rise of "digital piracy" is hitting a lot of industries hard. Comics are just the biggest target because it's never been a major cash cow like TV shows or theatrical movies. The issue is that instead of making a serious point about this he's using it as justification to basically put the industry down like a dying animal instead of pushign for real solutions.
Alex I do everything like a hawk.
This isn't DC Comics -- Marvel continuity doesn't die out if you don't water it often enough.
The whole Batman idea is a very childish response to childhood trauma.
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  Quote Kipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2011 at 10:18pm
I think you're projecting a lot of your own personal issues with Morrison onto that article.
 
He didn't say he was jumping ship from DC, he said nothing about Marvel, and he didn't say anything at all that made me think he was implying that comics should be put out of their misery. He mentioned that Superheroes have been moving into the bigger medium of movies, but he didn't say that means everybody should just stop making comics now.
 
Your translator seems broken, maybe you should upgrade to a newer less-biased one.
 
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  Quote grief Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 1:28am
I don't think pirating is going to kill comics any more than it's killed the music industry, the movie industry, the TV industry, the book industry, or the anime industry. Does it hurt? Hell yeah. Will it kill it? I don't think so.

Personally, I think the industry has been killing itself for years now what with the repetition of story-lines, the lack of over-all publishing material, and a lack of relevancy to the LARGER entertainment industry. If people want entertainment, they turn on the TV, the computer, or watch a movie - reading comics isn't even CONSIDERED by the mainstream audience these days. Comics aren't relevant anymore unless they tie-into a larger summer Movie Blockbuster and that's a damn shame.
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  Quote Blackcyclops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 4:05am
When was comics really considered by the mainstream audience though? The 1940s? The 1960s? Comics have been a niche community since the Silver Age started. We got alittle rich in the 90s due to speculation (see-housing market and internet bubble) but its never been a big market.

I actually disagree piracy can kill an industry at least its current incarnation of it. And by kill I mean greatly hurt it so that it becomes smaller and less people make money. In music that just means people gotta make money off shows or instead of being a multimillionaire just a regular millionaire lol...But comics most people aren't getting rich (never really did) and we could see companies closing down or people moving (as they are already doing) to other venues. Of course there are more problems than just piracy, like the general disinterest in comics or them seem as "noy cool" but let's not downplay how serious piracy can be for such a smaller industry.

Plus people already complain about comics been too business minded or "selling out". To stay afloat they'll have to become more "evil corporation" and that will probably scare off some of its fanbase who consider themselves "above that".
"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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  Quote UncannyScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 4:40am
I agree with Morrison in some regards about the industry being in a sort of dying area, and I agree with Grief very much that it's not just piracy hurting the industry but themselves. Its distressing that you have a form of reading in comics where they don't really focus on story that much in some cases but more on where it can tie to this movie or that movie or that product and marketing ploys, when at the same time you have a lot more television turning to telling compelling long term stories as comics used to do. Not sure if they will truly follow through, but DC's words about needing to move away from writing for trade is a good way to start. Stop compelling your writers to write arcs that are longer than needed just to fill a trade when you could easily still put seven issues that aren't part of an arc but have an overarching story plot or background going on. While I'm iffy about it sometimes, move to the format that BC and others champion many times of doing it like television seasons. Its annoying to see constant #1's but if you are going to do that at least do it in a structured way instead of suddenly a new #1 here than reverting to high numbers just to turn and do #1 again.

Another thing to do is make sure that your core base of fans are happy with what you are doing while searching for the 'new' readers you think you can bring in. Throwing the old ones under the bus just for gimmicks that might bring in new people is a poor way to do business. Don't dismiss what is said by your fans as just angry fan boys as sometimes is done, and really stop and listen to feedback and words. A group not liking blank book is not just always fan boys just angry about something. Legitimately it could be something wrong.

Also tap into the backing of the big corporations you now have owning you. Get comics out into stores and such again. Get a deal going with Wal-Mart, get comics on the book shelf there. The 7-11, whatever. Comic shops are not a place that many non-fans will go into to check out the comics based on the blockbuster comic movie they just saw. Comics really got me as a kid because I would see the bright cool covers as I was walking through the store with my mother and it would make me want one cause it looked cool. Put comics where kids will see them and possibly want them, cause we all know kids are a lot of time visual and see something and just have to have it.
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  Quote Blackcyclops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 6:30am
That's assuming Wal-Mart wants them in there stores or probably more accurately whether your parent company wants to share with Wal-Mart lol...Because with all the power WB has why wouldn't they want comics in Wal-Mart? It has to be more complex then just "comic companies are dumb" lol. I mean trades are in book stores so why aren't comics in wal-mart? There has to be more to the story...not to mention print media is dying in general.

As for the fan thing, its really hard to tell what to do. They should listen to whose buying books but when shouldn't they? I mean we as fans don't treat all fan criticism equally, so should we expect the companies to? I mean how many times do we say or hear "oh the fanboys are upset but its fine" or something similar? And then when the concept "vote with your buck" is brought up, just like with music/movies people's opinions are treated as less valid if something a fan doesn't like is popular (see: Morrison's X-Men or Fraction's X-Men run or a lot of Johns' work).

Now that isn't to say that Uncanny's points aren't extremely valid but its such a nuanced discussion. If it was as simple as: listen to fan A and put book in place B, I'm sure WB or Disney or maybe Dark horse would be doing it.

I still firmly believe the future is digital...that's it. Whether we like it or not (i like my paper) but its the truth.

Edited by Blackcyclops - 02-Sep-2011 at 6:37am
"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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  Quote UncannyScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 6:49am
Well a lot of times in interviews the editors and higher ups seem to dismiss the idea of putting comics out in other places outside the book store and comic stores. As if it is an unworkable archaic idea. I'm sure there are tons of stores that would like to try out such a source of revenue to see it it works at all especially with the slew of movies that have come out and are still to come out causing people to come there to get the comics and merchandise perhaps and then maybe shopping for more. It would seem win win, it is interesting to wonder why they don't. There was something the other day about Disney stores having comics in them but really Disney Stores are not some place that people just go to every day to browse or shop at and their not all over the place really. Just big malls and such.

True about the fans, just seems a lot now that some creators and higher ups just believe that all online stuff is white noise fan boy shouting and that if people don't stop buying a book clearly its awesome stuff. Its like saying just cause the crack addict keeps buying the crack it must not be deadly or terrible stuff lol. A harsh and stupid example I know but yeah :p.

I so hope digital is not the future. I really hate all things going digital like purchasing digital copies of games and movies and such because we all know how fickle computers and servers and other tech are. All it takes is a server crash that can't be fixed and bam all your movies you bought from company A or comics from Company B that you can't download onto your computer but have to access through their service, is gone. And you know they won't give out then free re copies to everyone and such, you'll have to potentially buy things again and just ugh. I'm stuck in the past I suppose but I just hate this dependence on technology our country is moving towards. Books are seen as useless just cause person has a kindle. I see them brag they have 4000 books on there...really? Are you really going to read 4000 books? Would you have gotten 4000 books had you not had a kindle that can hold that much? The answer is no on all counts. It's like an iPod. I have way more songs on there than I ever would have gotten or listened to had I not had the capacity to do so. It's just...blah. Sorry I'm all anti everything digital and dependent on tech lol.
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  Quote Blackcyclops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 6:59am
But see Uncanny that's exactly my point lol. If something doesn't agree with us the hardcore base but someone is buying it, why should a company listen to us? I mean it is a business. Always has been, its one of the reason why some people went independent in the first place. If Twilight sells millions and a group of internet fans hate it, should I really listen to them if I'm making money and keeping books saling? If you say yes or no I should then really you're creating a hierarchy/stratified system of fan importance. Thing is one system you make money the other you don't. Its a very sticky situation. And really only become an issue as internet fan communities grew in importance/size.

And I'm sure the creators opinions wouldn't mean much if the business people felt it would make money. But apparently someone feels it won't, either on their end or the stores end.

As for the tech thing...well I'm sure some people hated the idea of mass-produced books lol...
"And someone's mom wants to eat all their souls. As a mom, I was offended. Moms should get to be role models, too."-Savant
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  Quote Anti-Limbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2011 at 7:19am
I wouldn't want to see paper comics go away myself, because it's just not the same thing to me however I really don't see that happening. But its hard to deny that digital is the way to go, and I'm surprised that more of an effort wasn't made to steer the industry in that direction sooner. Sell them for a couple dollars less or maybe even 99 cents and watch those sales shoot up. I don't remember where I heard it but, if the number of people who download comics is any indication then the interest is still there and relatively strong. They just need to figure out how to make it more enticing/easy for people to get their hands on them.
 
I can say from personal experience how hard it can be to get the comics you are already interested in much less be exposed to anything new. I live in a rural area where the nearest comic shop is a half hour away and even then it's touch and go as far as what is gonna still be in by the time I get there--if I get to go at all.
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